An
Interview with the New Director of Division of Suicide Attempt Survivors and
People with Lived Experience
Reposted with permission by the American Association for Suicide Prevention
Sally Spencer-Thomas, Psy.D.
CEO & Co-Founder, Carson J
Spencer Foundation
Survivor (of Suicide Loss)
Division Director
DeQuincy Lezine, Ph.D.
President & CEO
Prevention Communities
Survivor of Suicide Attempt
Division Director
Congratulations goes out to DeQuincy Lezine for being
appointed as the first Division Director of the Suicide Attempt Survivors/Lived
Experience Division. The membership is very excited to get to know him and
understand his vision for how he might collaborate with other divisions to
advance the field of suicide prevention. For these reasons, I enthusiastically
interviewed him to better introduce him to the membership.
Sally: Who is DeQuincy
Lezine?
DeQuincy: I grew up in Los Angeles, CA and got scholarship
support to pursue a dual-degree in computer science and visual arts at Brown
University, with the intent of going into computer animation. I eventually
switched to being a psychology major, but continued my interest in graphic arts
throughout college. Many people know that I formed one of the first mental
health and suicide prevention student clubs. Very few know that I founded a
second club promoting graphic arts. I also maintained my love for computers and
technology, and have built several computers “from the ground up” including my
current desktop. A guilty pleasure? I am a chocoholic, which is not so hidden,
and generally have a love for desserts. I have two beautiful children –
Benjamin (4 years old) and Nina (2 years old) who both challenge me and keep me
going. Finally I’ll add that I like to learn - from natural history to
microeconomics to carpentry to public health and policy. However, what I really
enjoy is teaching, and have since mentored or tutored other students in high
school. Applying knowledge to solve problems or make discoveries, and helping
to inform others are true passions for me.
Sally: Tell us more
about how you got to be a pioneer in the Suicide Attempt Survivor Movement. How
did it start, what were the turning points in your journey? Mentors?
Influential experiences?
DeQuincy: I got started in suicide prevention as a first-year
student in college, after my first suicide attempt, by contacting the Suicide
Prevention Advocacy Network (SPAN USA). I just didn’t find any other attempt
survivors in the national suicide prevention movement. A number of groups were
missing. There were few African-Americans involved, especially men. In fact, my
first television interview was for a CNN special on African-American male
suicide. There was also an age gap where prevention for young adults and
college students was largely missing – because the focus was either on high
school or adults. I thought that if people planning suicide prevention programs
were going to be talking about those groups and trying to reach them, then it
made sense to have someone from those groups at the table. I didn’t necessarily
want that to be me, by the way.
Jerry and Elsie Weyrauch practically adopted me, so the time
I spent with their daughter Susan was like time with a sister. Jerry and Elsie
even attended my wedding. Suicide loss survivors were like family and that’s
who I spent the most time with during SPAN USA events. I can still recall
touring the national monuments in Washington with other advocates, and Sandy
Martin suggesting the idea of “memory quilts” to put human faces to the stories
of suicide. People like Dese’Rae Stage (Live Through This) are doing digital
versions of that idea for attempt survivors now.
The most influential experience for me was being part of the
Expert Panel at the Reno, Nevada SPAN National Suicide Prevention Conference. I
was happy to be part of the Steering Committee that developed the conference,
and met Kay Jamison there, who helped mentor me for years afterward. However,
the idea that a young suicide attempt survivor could be seen as a valuable part
of a very small group of experts that would shape the first national strategy
was humbling. The experience itself, while extremely tiring given the long
hours that we worked in a small hotel conference room, was transformative. It
was probably the event that most anchored me in this field. I still recall Mort
Silverman, in his introduction of the panel, describing as me as a
representative of “the future of suicide prevention.” At the end of college,
the memory of the Reno Conference was pivotal in deciding between a career in
mental health advocacy or suicide prevention research.
Sally: What is your
vision for the new Division? What do you anticipate are the greatest
opportunities and challenges?
DeQuincy: I would like to see the new Division provide a way
to bridge the gap between attempt survivors and suicide prevention
professionals. Having experience on “both sides of the table” I know that there
is much that can be learned on all sides. There is a growing attempt survivor
movement that can bring energy, hope, insight, and practical ideas into the
clinical, prevention, and research worlds where AAS plays a leading
international role. People who have personal experience with suicide, mental
health challenges, and/or substance abuse issues remind professionals about
goals and priorities. I think it helps to have people like me in the room to
say “That’s all well and good, but my brothers and sisters are dying out there.
How is this going to help them?” On the other side, it is important to bring
ideas about collaborative care, true safety planning, therapy specifically
focused on suicidal experiences, and new understanding of what helps or harms
into the community. The Division holds the potential for helping to get some of
those ideas out into “the real world.”
The challenges are rooted in the difficulty that any new
effort faces within an established arena, along with deeply rooted negative
perceptions, bias, and stigma. It will be difficult in some circles, to
establish the Division as an important contributor to the mission of AAS and
suicide prevention as whole. In general, wisdom from personal experience is
often considered less valid than information gleaned from scientific methods
and statistical calculations. For a long time suicide attempt survivors were
patients and research subjects, misunderstood and anxiety-provoking in their
potential deaths, and closely associated with possible liability or litigation.
On the other side, negative experiences with clinicians and researchers using
physical restraints, seclusion practices, forced or coerced hospitalization and
medication, debilitating side effects, dismissive or demeaning attitudes, and
criminalization haunt some people who have lived through suicidal times. There
are, at times well-founded, adversarial views and suspicions on both sides. It
is a challenge to switch from those perspectives to seeing each other as
colleagues or partners. I think we can overcome those challenges, but it will
take patience and persistence.
Sally: How do you
anticipate collaborating with suicide loss survivors?
DeQuincy: As I mentioned earlier, I have a long history of
working alongside loss survivors. Everyone who has been personally touched by a
suicidal crisis, either their own or the experience of someone close to them,
has a unique view of this topic. Everyone who chooses to work in suicide
prevention has a chance to gain scientific, clinical, or public health
expertise through formal education. However, some types of perspective and
knowledge are only acquired through the terror of being intimately involved in
a suicidal crisis. There is a difference between choosing an area of interest
and being thrown into it with an unexpected and traumatic occurrence. Almost every
time I have had a chance to talk to a loss survivor in depth about the
person(s) that they have lost I have felt a connection to that person. To know
the ups and downs, the hopes and challenges, the triumphs and terrors of that
person is to know a peer who I will never be able to meet in person. The
specific type of experience differs between attempt survivors and loss
survivors, but the ability to check “book knowledge” against personal
experience is shared. With that recognition I think there are many projects
that the two survivor groups could work on together.
Sally: What are your
thoughts around the terminology of “survivor” and inclusion of the concept of
“lived experience”?
DeQuincy: Every term lacks something and leaves one with the
feeling that his or her entire experience cannot be adequately captured in a
few words. The only ones who live past a suicide death are the people who are
left to grieve the loss of a person afterward. The ones who survive a suicidal
crisis are the ones who personally endured it. Reducing one or the other to
“survivor” is an injustice because it doesn’t say what the person has survived.
It would be like me saying simply that I have a Ph.D. Most people would
immediately ask, “A Ph.D. in what?” To me, saying “suicide attempt survivor”
and “suicide loss survivor” are more descriptive and specific terms that say
someone has lived past a life-threatening event, and how he or she was
connected to that event.
I do realize that I enjoy writing, and being particular about
words and meanings. It is why I recently switched from focusing on the single
“suicide attempt” or “suicide” to the “crisis,” which can be a longer period
and may encompass thoughts, feelings, actions, temporary recovery, and
ambivalence. “Crisis” is also an imperfect term, but the concept of
acknowledging difficulties before and after an event is appealing to me.
“Lived experience” can mean many things, which is both a
benefit and a drawback. It is beneficial for coalition building because it can
be inclusive of a wide-range of suicidal experiences to join an effort. For
example, it can be said that loss survivors also have lived through the
suicidal crisis. Beyond this, it helps connect people in suicide prevention
with leaders and authors in mental health recovery and advocacy, who regularly
use the term “lived experience.” However, the more scientific / clinical side
of me feels that the term is too broad. I think that having the division name
reflect both specific and broad terminology helps strike a balance between the
two.
Sally: How can members
get involved in your mission?
DeQuincy: Over the years a fair number of suicide loss
survivors have disclosed their personal suicidal crises. That should not be
surprising of course. We know that suicidal behavior runs in families. We know
that suicidal people often have suicidal friends. We also know that a suicide
attempt or suicide can be a catalyst for suicidal behavior in some who are
already at risk. We have come far as a field, but telling others that you are a
suicide loss survivor still takes courage. Telling others that you have
experienced a suicidal crisis yourself requires even more nerve. However, even
if you choose not to disclose, you can get involved in our mission by joining /
adding the Attempt Survivor / Lived Experience Division as an interest.
One of the projects that Franklin Cook and I have been
working on (in our laughable “spare time”) is clearly defining the shared
vision of developing and valuing peer support in suicide prevention. Inclusion
of both loss survivor and attempt survivor voices in many spheres depends on
having professionals consider personal experience as a valid source of
knowledge and/or expertise. Even within academia there is contention about how
to value qualitative research which emphasizes information that comes from
“just” talking to people. This is a critical point. Suicide loss survivors and
suicide attempt survivors are the groups that have the largest proportion of
members who pay dues and conference expenses without any organizational
support. Many pay out of limited incomes. They regularly serve unpaid on Boards
and Committees and projects. If our collective voices are valued and we want to
recruit more members with that experiential wisdom, then that valuation should
be shown through pay for services and/or discounted dues and conference fees.
Sally: Anything else
you’d like to tell us?
DeQuincy: As Chair of the new division I offer thanks to
everyone who supported the formation of our division, and I am looking forward
to exploring the huge potential for collaboration between the two divisions. I
would also like to offer a personal “thank you” to all of the suicide loss
survivors who have become like family to me over what is nearly two decades of
working together.
About DeQuincy Lezine: DeQuincy Lezine, PhD, has been
active in national suicide prevention efforts since 1996, including roles in
the development of national and state suicide prevention plans. He is the
author of Eight Stories Up (Oxford University Press) and the primary author for
The Way Forward (Suicide Attempt Survivor Task Force). He can be reached at:
drlezine@gmail.com
About Sally
Spencer-Thomas: As a psychologist, mental health
advocate, and survivor of her brother’s suicide, Sally Spencer-Thomas, Psy.D.,
sees suicide prevention, intervention and postvention from many perspectives.
She is currently the Survivor (of Suicide Loss) Division Director for AAS and
CEO for the Carson J Spencer Foundation ( www.CarsonJSpencer.org).
Sally@CarsonJSpencer.org | 720-244-6535.
For the past two weeks I have had the immense privilege of traveling internationally to participate in some of the most exciting global suicide prevention initiatives of the year. The events have left me humbled, inspired and feeling deeply connected to something big and important. First, I attended the 15th European Symposium on Suicide and Suicidal Behavior (ESSSB15) in Tallinn, Estonia and then I had the tremendous honor of being invited to the World Health Organization’s launch of the World Suicide Report in Geneva, Switzerland. Both of these experiences have left me with the tangible impression of “one world connected” – the theme of this year’s National Suicide Prevention Week (9/8-9/14, 2014) and World Suicide Prevention Day (9/10/14).
In fact, connection, inclusion and collaboration were themes that emerged from both meetings from the highest levels of our world’s mental health leaders. From ESSSB15 we heard loud and clear the need to “bring the first person into our research” because we had lots of study about the “suicidal mind” but little understanding. Leaders called to action: bridge the communication gap between researchers and people with lived experience and to acknowledge the importance of compassion and empathy, dialogue and partnership. We need to get beyond studying suicidal behavior and find positive outcomes of change. As Jerry Reed, the Director of the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, said, “We talk a lot about deaths, but we need to talk about hope and recovery.”
